I gave up. Just wrote to Paula Bosse, curator of the wonderful FLASHBACK : DALLAS site, who knows loads of trivia about Dallas. Will let you know when I get a reply.
Yes, it says "Tom Thumb 8 Buns 25 cents." It must've been a drive-in or burger joint in Dallas in
'63, however, I've been searching for it and all i can find is the Tom Thumb supermarket chain, which was started in 1948 in Dallas and is still extant. Maybe the store had a deli or restaurant area that also made burgers back then? Or maybe there was a separate burger joing/drive-in by that name, which I haven't tracked down yet. Still working on it... Are there any Dallas old timers reading this who know? (I'm not from Dallas or TX).
Excellent story Jeff! Anyone old enough to know what it was like for a black person in 1963 to live in Dallas, instinctively understands why this couple would not have wanted to go to the authorities with their eye witness accounts. It would only mean trouble for them, especially if their "story" didn't go along with the official narrative. Roger Craig, the white Dallas policeman, went through hell because of his testimony. Imagine what this young couple would have dealt with had they seen or heard anything nefarious behind the picket fence. We can only hope, some younger relatives do come forward with details that corroborate this amazing story.
Efforts to identify the lunch eating couple have been needed for six decades now. Wondering what happened to them is one of the mysteries. Speculating on why they did not come forward may or may not be accurate, but Amos Euins importantly came forward. Workers in the TSBD were interviewed but it is possible they would not have voluntarily done so.
I sense there are many witnesses who did not come forward and it is possible one of them did see people behind the picket fence. It might even be natural to not say anything for fear of contradicting the official "truth." This is illustrated by so many people saying there were three shots.
Pictures Of The Pain is one of the most important books I've read though it does not lean toward conspiracy notions. It adds an indescribable dimension to all the films I've seen and photos I've studied. It is also one of the very best written books on the event that I have encountered. It even repeatedly refers to "three shots."
There are certainly witnesses that didn’t come forward out of fear. Look what happened to so many who did “make waves”—Roger Craig, Mary Meyer, Dorothy Kilgallen, the list goes on. In my house, as a 11-year old, the idea there was a conspiracy was strong and discussed in tones that said, “keep your mouth shut” when witnessing a crime.
I agree with your comment regarding witnesses afraid to speak. Interestingly though, the examples you cite (and they are good ones) are people who died some years after Kennedy's death. In the case of Ms. Kilgallen, her death seems to have occurred when she allegedly spoke of breaking open the case after speaking with Jack Ruby. However, there are coincidences in life. I worked on a movie set with Sharon Tate and went to high school with four people who lived with Charles Manson. I had nothing to do with Tate's murder.
The fact some witnesses died unexpectedly does not mean, in itself, that witnesses did not come forward because of these deaths. If witnesses did not come forward, how can we even know they were witnesses? Nonetheless, I think there may have been important witnesses who did not come forward and maybe witnesses we do not know of who died because they were witnesses.
I think black people, especially in Texas and the South at the time, were generally fearful and distrustful of the police, with good reason, and would have avoided contact with them regardless of the circumstances. Dallas and Fort Worth were Klan towns. A huge Klan meeting hall was built in Fort Worth and still stands to this day, although most people now think it is just an abandoned warehouse.
Disgusting, isn't it. And did you know DPD's George Butler said 1/2 the DPD were in the KKK?! From Gayle Nix Jackson's now defunct site on the WBM: Butler also provided information to Penn Jones for his Midlothian Mirror paper at one time stating “over 50% of the Dallas Police Department were members of the KKK”.
I was born straight outta Compton. My first teaching job was at Hollenbeck Jr. High. My next three years were spent in what has been called South Central though I always viewed it as a specific neighborhood. I have had students come to me and tell me that a specific student had a gun. There probably were many times when some students did not say anything. What I got out of living in a community with over a 90% black population is that black people are people. There are socially responsible people in these communities. We do not hear about them because they are not sensational and sensational sells.
A concerted effort should be made to find these two people or their relatives. Perhaps fliers at traditionally black colleges near Dallas would turn up some clues. They most likely shared what they saw with friends and relatives.
The second half of A Woman I Know was a big letdown. Her knowledge of the shooting, the shots, etc. is not representative of anyone with knowledge of the issues. The first half of the book was extremely engrossing.
Nice job Jeff, these overlooked aspects are fascinating and might provoke some actual evidentiary revelations of importance, even now, over sixty years on!
check Robert Groden's book, a soft cover, chock full of photos published early 90's I recall.... I remember a photo that showed a a man stepping up on something to look over the wall to the rear and right of Zapruder and he is leaning forward arms supporting him and his head is turned to the right as if he is looking in the rail yard. the caption or gist of the story was if anyone saw someone fleeing it would have been this guy. I believe the photo was actually a frame from a news camera as those newsman exited their car after the shots and were there pretty quickly. Andwhat about those guys on the stairs that can bee seen in the Nix film?did they ever come forward?
This is truly a bombshell of a story that deserves more attention. The mere fact that they literally had a window seat to one of the most tragic events in our nations history is just incredible. This needs to be brought to the mainstream media now, during Black History month to try to find out who they were and if they are still alive, to get their story as they have important information to convey. Certainly they had to have told their story with someone!
The item in question along with the couple’s hamburger wrappers is a Coil Craft No. 672 Stenographer Note Book (I have a photo that verifies this or you can visit https://www.etsy.com/listing/854273122/vintage-stenographers-notebook-1940s-or ). While it possibly belonged to someone working at the nearby Dallas Courthouse or a law office, my wife pointed out to me that many were used in business at that time by any secretary who was required to take dictation. Did this notebook make it into Dallas Police evidence wherein someone could read the contents inside it to determine from what office it came and track down who was employed at the time?
Also, regarding the photo Jeff provided of the picket fence area: It’s been nearly 50 years since my wife and I recreated what Zapruder filmed as he panned past the fence following the President’s limousine (see More Ruthless Than The Enemy Chapter 49 at WilliamPawley.blogspot.com) but my recollection is that the original picket fence was a foot or so closer to the white wall. Does anyone know if the replacement fence is further away or did I just take longer steps when I was younger?
Wonderful detective work, Mr. Cannon, thank you. If it belonged to either Larry or Mary, that would be a useful clue. I also thought it might be the officer's notebook. In either case, it might be helpful.
Thank you, Bill. I did ponder that it may have been the detective’s Note Book. After you reiterated the thought I searched on line for Dallas Police Department records from that day.
4 1 DPD - Materials related to the Kennedy Assassination - DPD records - notebook, 1963
4 2 DPD - Materials related to the Kennedy Assassination - DPD records - notebook
4 3 DPD - Materials related to the Kennedy Assassination - DPD records - notebook, 1963
The University of North Texas Libraries digitized many items available at The Portal To Texas History, I discovered that the Coil Craft Stenographer Note Book was so ubiquitous at the time, even Oswald had one which was photographed by the police in his home.
Amazing. I spent some time at these links this morning. Who has done the definitive study of Oswald's notebooks? There are some interesting entries in there. Several entries for Mexico City embassies, New Orleans groups, and even an entry for a Nazi party organization, I believe in NY. Wonder whats up there.
Agreed, excellent story, amazing mystery. In the photo of the detectives, the one on the left holds a flyer of some sort in his right hand. I've searched the image online without luck. Does anyone recognize the logo? Is it a company logo? Sort of looks like the Texaco star (but it's not) and the name Coil _raft or something similar on the flyer.
Thank you for covering this neglected topic, Jeff! It is indeed sad that journalists and investigators (DPD/FBI etc) never took any interest at the time in tracking down and interviewing the black eyewitnesses, not only these two, but the LONG line of African American employees (most from the Daltex) who were lining the Elm street sidewalk east of the Stemmons sign, most of whom are captured in the famous Croft photo of the limo. A few years back, I looked into the list of Parkland Hospital admissions around the time when JFK and Gov Connally were admitted (it's p.7 of the Price Exhibit). https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
It's one page with 29 admissions. #17, a black girl, admitted at 2:48, caught my eye: "Billie Jo Parish, "19, C/F," admitting diagnosis "Collapsed [...illegible...looks like an erasure]," and discharge diagnosis "Depression". I found her father was a Dallas pastor, Rev Robert Lawrence Parish Sr (d.'92), and she had a bro Robt. (d. 2017), who "worked for Congressman Earle Cabell as a Community Liaison with the African American community. A younger brother is currently pastor of the same Dallas church her father once ran. Tonight I did more research on her and found she wasn't married until '66, (husb. Melvin, d. 2022) and they had an only child in '67. At first I thought that meant it couldn't be her. But, I've decided it is still possible. She came from a big family with 4 bros and 3 sisters. Her sisters were 5-10 yrs older than her; so, If it is her, my new theory is possibly she was baby sitting for one of her sisters, and was accompanied to DP by one of her brothers, or a boyfriend, who also wanted to see the President. Trying to stay open to other possibilities than them being being a married couple. The good news is, she's still alive, age 79. Her family photo shows she's petite, and has a brother who is also petite, and just few inches taller than her, who could *possibly* be him.
Family photo on her father's (Rev. Parish's) findagrave. I believe Billie Jo Parish is in the center, rear, and her petite younger brother on the left.:
Also...the photo was not dated, but I believe it was sometime after 1979, since her sister Lois died in '79 and her photo is pasted on the rt hand side of the family photo. So that means billie would be at least 34 in this photo. And she does look to be in her 30s. She was the youngest girl in the family.
Does anyone recognize the burger wrapper being from a specific burger joint in Dallas 1963?
I gave up. Just wrote to Paula Bosse, curator of the wonderful FLASHBACK : DALLAS site, who knows loads of trivia about Dallas. Will let you know when I get a reply.
Yes, it says "Tom Thumb 8 Buns 25 cents." It must've been a drive-in or burger joint in Dallas in
'63, however, I've been searching for it and all i can find is the Tom Thumb supermarket chain, which was started in 1948 in Dallas and is still extant. Maybe the store had a deli or restaurant area that also made burgers back then? Or maybe there was a separate burger joing/drive-in by that name, which I haven't tracked down yet. Still working on it... Are there any Dallas old timers reading this who know? (I'm not from Dallas or TX).
First rate. I’d love to think that this story is percolating somewhere. And that there were no odd deaths corresponding to a possible “Larry & Mary”…
Jefferson, This was another outstanding article! Quite thought-provoking as well!
Excellent story Jeff! Anyone old enough to know what it was like for a black person in 1963 to live in Dallas, instinctively understands why this couple would not have wanted to go to the authorities with their eye witness accounts. It would only mean trouble for them, especially if their "story" didn't go along with the official narrative. Roger Craig, the white Dallas policeman, went through hell because of his testimony. Imagine what this young couple would have dealt with had they seen or heard anything nefarious behind the picket fence. We can only hope, some younger relatives do come forward with details that corroborate this amazing story.
Efforts to identify the lunch eating couple have been needed for six decades now. Wondering what happened to them is one of the mysteries. Speculating on why they did not come forward may or may not be accurate, but Amos Euins importantly came forward. Workers in the TSBD were interviewed but it is possible they would not have voluntarily done so.
I sense there are many witnesses who did not come forward and it is possible one of them did see people behind the picket fence. It might even be natural to not say anything for fear of contradicting the official "truth." This is illustrated by so many people saying there were three shots.
Pictures Of The Pain is one of the most important books I've read though it does not lean toward conspiracy notions. It adds an indescribable dimension to all the films I've seen and photos I've studied. It is also one of the very best written books on the event that I have encountered. It even repeatedly refers to "three shots."
There are certainly witnesses that didn’t come forward out of fear. Look what happened to so many who did “make waves”—Roger Craig, Mary Meyer, Dorothy Kilgallen, the list goes on. In my house, as a 11-year old, the idea there was a conspiracy was strong and discussed in tones that said, “keep your mouth shut” when witnessing a crime.
I agree with your comment regarding witnesses afraid to speak. Interestingly though, the examples you cite (and they are good ones) are people who died some years after Kennedy's death. In the case of Ms. Kilgallen, her death seems to have occurred when she allegedly spoke of breaking open the case after speaking with Jack Ruby. However, there are coincidences in life. I worked on a movie set with Sharon Tate and went to high school with four people who lived with Charles Manson. I had nothing to do with Tate's murder.
The fact some witnesses died unexpectedly does not mean, in itself, that witnesses did not come forward because of these deaths. If witnesses did not come forward, how can we even know they were witnesses? Nonetheless, I think there may have been important witnesses who did not come forward and maybe witnesses we do not know of who died because they were witnesses.
I think black people, especially in Texas and the South at the time, were generally fearful and distrustful of the police, with good reason, and would have avoided contact with them regardless of the circumstances. Dallas and Fort Worth were Klan towns. A huge Klan meeting hall was built in Fort Worth and still stands to this day, although most people now think it is just an abandoned warehouse.
Disgusting, isn't it. And did you know DPD's George Butler said 1/2 the DPD were in the KKK?! From Gayle Nix Jackson's now defunct site on the WBM: Butler also provided information to Penn Jones for his Midlothian Mirror paper at one time stating “over 50% of the Dallas Police Department were members of the KKK”.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160226052536/https://gaylenixjackson.com/missing-evidence-2/george-butler-the-dpd-and-the-jfk-assassination/
Thanks, Linda. What a great site. Too bad it is no longer maintained.
Half the DPD were in the KKK, and the other half were most likely KKK sympathizers.
P.S. Read "A Woman I Know" by Mary Haverstick. Finally, something new.
I was born straight outta Compton. My first teaching job was at Hollenbeck Jr. High. My next three years were spent in what has been called South Central though I always viewed it as a specific neighborhood. I have had students come to me and tell me that a specific student had a gun. There probably were many times when some students did not say anything. What I got out of living in a community with over a 90% black population is that black people are people. There are socially responsible people in these communities. We do not hear about them because they are not sensational and sensational sells.
A concerted effort should be made to find these two people or their relatives. Perhaps fliers at traditionally black colleges near Dallas would turn up some clues. They most likely shared what they saw with friends and relatives.
The second half of A Woman I Know was a big letdown. Her knowledge of the shooting, the shots, etc. is not representative of anyone with knowledge of the issues. The first half of the book was extremely engrossing.
Nice job Jeff, these overlooked aspects are fascinating and might provoke some actual evidentiary revelations of importance, even now, over sixty years on!
check Robert Groden's book, a soft cover, chock full of photos published early 90's I recall.... I remember a photo that showed a a man stepping up on something to look over the wall to the rear and right of Zapruder and he is leaning forward arms supporting him and his head is turned to the right as if he is looking in the rail yard. the caption or gist of the story was if anyone saw someone fleeing it would have been this guy. I believe the photo was actually a frame from a news camera as those newsman exited their car after the shots and were there pretty quickly. Andwhat about those guys on the stairs that can bee seen in the Nix film?did they ever come forward?
This is truly a bombshell of a story that deserves more attention. The mere fact that they literally had a window seat to one of the most tragic events in our nations history is just incredible. This needs to be brought to the mainstream media now, during Black History month to try to find out who they were and if they are still alive, to get their story as they have important information to convey. Certainly they had to have told their story with someone!
The item in question along with the couple’s hamburger wrappers is a Coil Craft No. 672 Stenographer Note Book (I have a photo that verifies this or you can visit https://www.etsy.com/listing/854273122/vintage-stenographers-notebook-1940s-or ). While it possibly belonged to someone working at the nearby Dallas Courthouse or a law office, my wife pointed out to me that many were used in business at that time by any secretary who was required to take dictation. Did this notebook make it into Dallas Police evidence wherein someone could read the contents inside it to determine from what office it came and track down who was employed at the time?
Also, regarding the photo Jeff provided of the picket fence area: It’s been nearly 50 years since my wife and I recreated what Zapruder filmed as he panned past the fence following the President’s limousine (see More Ruthless Than The Enemy Chapter 49 at WilliamPawley.blogspot.com) but my recollection is that the original picket fence was a foot or so closer to the white wall. Does anyone know if the replacement fence is further away or did I just take longer steps when I was younger?
Wonderful detective work, Mr. Cannon, thank you. If it belonged to either Larry or Mary, that would be a useful clue. I also thought it might be the officer's notebook. In either case, it might be helpful.
Thank you, Bill. I did ponder that it may have been the detective’s Note Book. After you reiterated the thought I searched on line for Dallas Police Department records from that day.
Thank you, Bill. I did ponder that it may have been the detective’s Note Book. After you reiterated the thought I searched on line for Dallas Police Department records from that day. https://dallascityhall.com/government/citysecretary/archives/Pages/Archives_1991-001.aspx does list police notebooks within its archives with Box and Folder numbers.
Nov. 30, 1963
4 1 DPD - Materials related to the Kennedy Assassination - DPD records - notebook, 1963
4 2 DPD - Materials related to the Kennedy Assassination - DPD records - notebook
4 3 DPD - Materials related to the Kennedy Assassination - DPD records - notebook, 1963
The University of North Texas Libraries digitized many items available at The Portal To Texas History, I discovered that the Coil Craft Stenographer Note Book was so ubiquitous at the time, even Oswald had one which was photographed by the police in his home.
https://texashistory.unt.edu/explore/collections/JFKDP/
Amazing. I spent some time at these links this morning. Who has done the definitive study of Oswald's notebooks? There are some interesting entries in there. Several entries for Mexico City embassies, New Orleans groups, and even an entry for a Nazi party organization, I believe in NY. Wonder whats up there.
Agreed, excellent story, amazing mystery. In the photo of the detectives, the one on the left holds a flyer of some sort in his right hand. I've searched the image online without luck. Does anyone recognize the logo? Is it a company logo? Sort of looks like the Texaco star (but it's not) and the name Coil _raft or something similar on the flyer.
Thank you for covering this neglected topic, Jeff! It is indeed sad that journalists and investigators (DPD/FBI etc) never took any interest at the time in tracking down and interviewing the black eyewitnesses, not only these two, but the LONG line of African American employees (most from the Daltex) who were lining the Elm street sidewalk east of the Stemmons sign, most of whom are captured in the famous Croft photo of the limo. A few years back, I looked into the list of Parkland Hospital admissions around the time when JFK and Gov Connally were admitted (it's p.7 of the Price Exhibit). https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Price_Ex_2-35.pdf
It's one page with 29 admissions. #17, a black girl, admitted at 2:48, caught my eye: "Billie Jo Parish, "19, C/F," admitting diagnosis "Collapsed [...illegible...looks like an erasure]," and discharge diagnosis "Depression". I found her father was a Dallas pastor, Rev Robert Lawrence Parish Sr (d.'92), and she had a bro Robt. (d. 2017), who "worked for Congressman Earle Cabell as a Community Liaison with the African American community. A younger brother is currently pastor of the same Dallas church her father once ran. Tonight I did more research on her and found she wasn't married until '66, (husb. Melvin, d. 2022) and they had an only child in '67. At first I thought that meant it couldn't be her. But, I've decided it is still possible. She came from a big family with 4 bros and 3 sisters. Her sisters were 5-10 yrs older than her; so, If it is her, my new theory is possibly she was baby sitting for one of her sisters, and was accompanied to DP by one of her brothers, or a boyfriend, who also wanted to see the President. Trying to stay open to other possibilities than them being being a married couple. The good news is, she's still alive, age 79. Her family photo shows she's petite, and has a brother who is also petite, and just few inches taller than her, who could *possibly* be him.
1950 Census: https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/187751757:62308
Family photo on her father's (Rev. Parish's) findagrave. I believe Billie Jo Parish is in the center, rear, and her petite younger brother on the left.:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/50965835/robert_lawrence-parish/photo#view-photo=27241593
Also...the photo was not dated, but I believe it was sometime after 1979, since her sister Lois died in '79 and her photo is pasted on the rt hand side of the family photo. So that means billie would be at least 34 in this photo. And she does look to be in her 30s. She was the youngest girl in the family.
They must have got there early to get the park bench. Did anybody ask Zapruder if he saw them?
I'm not sure if anyone asked Zapruder, but Sitzman commented on them.