You may be correct. I just wanted to clarify that there are potentially three questions if one believes LHO traveled to MC. I wont speak for Jeff but I believe he thinks LHO was in MC (#1) but may not buy into both scenarios 2 and 3.
wasnt there some documentation of the hotel where he stayed? i think there were some interviews of students who said they interacted with him and of course the alleged party he attended? This is not an area i have focused on so better to engage with Jeff on this issue.
sometimes we dont have "unveriable" proof but just eyewitness testimony which is inherently unreliable. other times, eyewitness testimony can be used to support "hard" evidence. If enough people say you're drunk, you shouldnt drive home..... :)
Below is the link to a document that I referenced in the above podcast:
Memo from FBI Director Hoover to Secret Service Chief Rowley, dated November 23, 1963 [NARA Record Number: 104-10400-10027]:
On the last page of the memo’s attached FBI report — is the following statement [referring to the Mexico City Soviet Embassy clandestine recordings and photographs, obtained from the CIA]:
“Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above and have listened to a recording of his voice. The Special Agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual WAS NOT Lee Harvey Oswald” [Emphasis Added].
That is why I was recently surprised to hear Jeff Morley say he believes Oswald was in Mexico City. It seems stunning to me since there apparently is not any real evidence. I have not yet read his “Our Man in Mexico “ so that is one of my next purchases.
if you're not getting Jeff's thursday emails with the link, you should let him know. but it is the same every thursday nite. if you can find one of his prior emails, use that link next time.
the motorcade route going down Main Street was fairly routine for Dallas. It was going to got hrough Dealey Plaza in any event. When they got to Houston, the next step depended on where the luncheon was going to be. there were two options: The new Trade Mart or some woman's organization (forgot the name). Had they chosen the latter, the motorcade would have continued down Main, through Dealey Plaza and under the Overpass.
When they Committee that officially invited JFK to Dallas chose the Trade Mart, that meant they had to go onto the Stemmons Freeway. The entrance ramp was off of Elm and the traffic rule was to use Elm to access the freeway ramp. In theory, the motorcade could have turned right from Main after it emerged from the Triple Overpass but that would have required having to go over a small divider that separated Main from Elm. so nothing untoward about the selection of the route. The motorcade route through Dealey Plaza was dictated by the location of the luncheon.
Men were arrested in Chicago, with rifles in their hotel room and they were let go. Also, an FBI informant named Lee called the Secret Service warning them of a plot. James Douglass did great work on the Chicago plot.
Absolutely. It would also be worthwhile to talk to those still alive, or if dead, their survivors (wives, children, siblings) to see what they know. Someone likely talked or left a diary.
Yes, the Chicago Latin gentlemen might be able to add to what is known. Maybe not though. It is possible David Atlee Phillips could add very little. It is assumed that the genesis of the assassination was in the CIA, but we may never know.
Thoughts on Ruth Paine follow. The employment agency left a message at the Paine household that a significantly better job opportunity was available for Oswald. It is probable that Ruth Paine received this message. Either she notified Oswald of the job or she didn't. You can decide if she didn't and why. A point of interest is that Ruth Paine told Oswald of the chance to work at the Book Depository job. If Oswald received the message, he did not take advantage of it. Perhaps he wanted to stay at the TSBD job. A potential reason for wanting to stay at the this job was that Buell Frazier could help him with transportation. He may have had another reason for not taking the better job.
While she's still alive, I wish someone would ask Paine what sense it makes to withhold information 60 years after the murder.
I saw a new video recently which IIRC said that the parade route was not publicly disclosed until the morning of the 22nd. Oswald was said to have asked a fellow employee on the morning of the 22nd if the motorcade was going to pass by the TSBD. If true, how could Oswald have planned anything?
My thoughts about the motorcade route after reading stuff from the conspiracy buffs were that the route made perfect sense with the dangerous exception of the Houston to Elm turn. Further, Oswald's job at the TSBD could have been secured while he was still living in New Orleans if D.H. Byrd was involved in providing his building. The shooting was not simply one of opportunity. I wonder if the sixth floor wooden floor really needed to be replaced.
Ruth Paine's post assassination history suggests she fulfilled assignments. Her sister and father also performed service to intelligence.
Good overview with the attention to current news on legal action to get more documents released from the national archives.
On RFK, jr., to dismiss his very serious and largely thankless work to hold corrupt corporations accountable, when he thoroughly documents everything he says about the vaccines and the origins of covid, I find sad here, Jeff. You can read his arguments as well as those of other leading researchers on Dr. Peter McCullough's substack, Dr. Malone, AMidwesterndoctor, etc. who have written extensively on the pandemic mismanagement and how the mRNA vaccine platforms are fatally flawed.
Ruth and Michael were Quakers with ties in ancestry going back to the start of this country. The CIA often recruited family members. Michael worked for Bell Helicopter, who supplied the helicopters used in Viet Nam and had deep CIA ties. He accompanied Oswald to several right-wing gatherings .Michael was a millionaire due to being related to the Forbe's family. Ruth Paine got Oswald his job at the Texas School Depository. Ruth's sister worked at the CIA and the Paynes knew Alan Dulles socially.. Ruth later went to Nicaragua and worked for AID during the time of the Iran-Contra affair. I read that Ruth had files of Cuban sympathizers in her garage, The photo of Oswald with a rifle in her backyard was found at Ruth's house, as well as a letter in one of her books that Oswald had written in Russian that somehow tied him to the General Walker shooting. Ruth invited Marina to live with her; and some believe that she was a handler for Marina, who had relatives in Russian intelligence. The Warren Commission tied a lot of evidence to Oswald from evidence found at Ruth's house. Ruth denies being in the CIA and believes Oswald shot Kennedy. In the recent documentary about her, it was revealed that she has delved deep into the research surrounding the assassination..
Re: Chicago plot. Vallee was an ex-Marine who worked at a U-2 base in Japan, worked in a building on the motorcade route and was associated with Cuban exiles
So What was Oswald doing in Mexico? several answers as Oswald was playing a double agent role. He told Marina never to tell anyone he wanted to go to Cuba. He wanted Marina to go to Russia but she did not want to. He beat the shit out of her several times. So nobody mentions that 3 KGB Russian embassy agents interviewed Oswald who came in without an appointment (off the street) he wanted a visa to get into Cuba on the way to Russia. They said it would take months. He showed him his FPFC card and newspaper articles on what a revolutionary he was. he showed them his pistol. they asked what do you carry that for and he said the FBI is bothering him.
Now who knows why he was desperate to get into Cuba? Judyth Baker, his N.O. girlfriend has the best explanation. He was going to hand off the Bio cancer weapon to kill Castro they worked on but the person did not show up so he tried to get in to do it anyway. Stupid is as stupid does.
Jefferson interviewed Judyth but could not verify her story. has anyone found evidence her story to be false?
Now on the black patches covering the back of the head wound. you can see Jackie's face through the shadows and even her white glove passes over it with no sign of blood on the head or glove. I see no concave on the back of the head in frame 335 https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z335.jpg
The autopsy photo showing the scull flap seen in Zapruder does not show any large wound to the back of the head. Some researchers determined that was also an altered photo. Nobody knows who even took the photo. The large wound was on the back right side but seemed blacked out but still Jackie's white glove in the sun. https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z344.jpg
I believe Frames 371 to 384 as the limo goes away from the camera show the large wound in the right back of the head which in a hurry they missed their chance to blackout
In Zapruder frame 371 we see the limousine clearly in the middle lane. In the Nix film the limousine, at this exact frame moment, the limousine is in the left hand lane. This frame might well serve as a milestone in that Clint Hill provides a marking point. So which film is phony? Why do they not record the same information?
The difference in perspective is what you think is different lanes. The nix filmed on the opposite side means changes in viewer angles and perception. They had a lot to do to alter the film in only 12 hours but what would they be hiding even if they could change the lanes the limo was in?
Your thinking is really good. I think I am correct about the left hand lane. The film was not returned in 12 hours though some frames were published by Life shortly afterword. The Doug Horne books are extremely important and it seems understood that alteration could have occurred over months. The possession of the film and the first generation copies is pretty obscure.
In Groden's The Killing Of A President, on page 25, is a 35 mm photo with the car in the left lane. Nix was 6'6 and had a perspective not considered by those in possession of the film. Several witnesses I am aware of (Truly and Hill) stated the car pulled into the left lane. I think a careful examination of the Nix film will bear me out. Regarding the planted foot, it is not blurred because the car is relatively still but as you say, the background is blurred supposedly because of panning while following a moving car. The car was not moving fast, and as you say, Hill never could have made it in the car if it were. Note: in the Nix film you can see it accelerate and pull back into the middle lane.
I'm glad I checked it, thanks. The mortorcycles are in the left lane and when the limo accelerates it does not pull to the left lane. One of the press cars did and stopped. so Bob Jackson could take some famous shots. The Zapruder film shows the perspective from the hill and he was higher than the picket fence. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=864615073878938
In Z371 we see the limousine captured in clear resolution but the blurred background, people standing still, suggests the limo is moving with some degree of speed. However, Clint Hill's foot is planted on the ground as he attempts to spring up to the back of the car. His foot should be blurred and it is not. Simple reason, the car is not moving as fast as we tend to sense it is from the blurred background. The frame is one of many which was altered and little technique was required to do so.
Well, his planted foot would not be blurred anymore than Jackie who is also moving, each frame is 1/18th of a second. The limo did have to slow down enough for Clint hill to catch up. a planted foot is not moving in relation to the car speed and Jackie also moving. what purpose would serve to mess with that frame after the head shots? What you missed is what the alteration missed is the big wound behind the blob and the ear, back of the head wound.
It would be easy to prove the Zapruder film may be authentic by simply firing any rifle with sufficient power to move a target two inches within the timeframe of striking the target. If the target fails to continue moving in the direction it was forced to move by the bullet, then the Zapruder film may be authentic. If the described phenomenon occurs once within 10,000 experimental shots, I'll buy the argument. Otherwise, Newton's Laws win.
You may be correct. I just wanted to clarify that there are potentially three questions if one believes LHO traveled to MC. I wont speak for Jeff but I believe he thinks LHO was in MC (#1) but may not buy into both scenarios 2 and 3.
wasnt there some documentation of the hotel where he stayed? i think there were some interviews of students who said they interacted with him and of course the alleged party he attended? This is not an area i have focused on so better to engage with Jeff on this issue.
sometimes we dont have "unveriable" proof but just eyewitness testimony which is inherently unreliable. other times, eyewitness testimony can be used to support "hard" evidence. If enough people say you're drunk, you shouldnt drive home..... :)
Below is the link to a document that I referenced in the above podcast:
Memo from FBI Director Hoover to Secret Service Chief Rowley, dated November 23, 1963 [NARA Record Number: 104-10400-10027]:
On the last page of the memo’s attached FBI report — is the following statement [referring to the Mexico City Soviet Embassy clandestine recordings and photographs, obtained from the CIA]:
“Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above and have listened to a recording of his voice. The Special Agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual WAS NOT Lee Harvey Oswald” [Emphasis Added].
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=8924#relPageId=7
That is why I was recently surprised to hear Jeff Morley say he believes Oswald was in Mexico City. It seems stunning to me since there apparently is not any real evidence. I have not yet read his “Our Man in Mexico “ so that is one of my next purchases.
arent we really talking about three issues? (1) did LHO go to MC, (2) did he show up Cuban consulate and (3) did he show up at the Russian embassy?
if you're not getting Jeff's thursday emails with the link, you should let him know. but it is the same every thursday nite. if you can find one of his prior emails, use that link next time.
we meet thursday nights at 8 pm EDT
the motorcade route going down Main Street was fairly routine for Dallas. It was going to got hrough Dealey Plaza in any event. When they got to Houston, the next step depended on where the luncheon was going to be. there were two options: The new Trade Mart or some woman's organization (forgot the name). Had they chosen the latter, the motorcade would have continued down Main, through Dealey Plaza and under the Overpass.
When they Committee that officially invited JFK to Dallas chose the Trade Mart, that meant they had to go onto the Stemmons Freeway. The entrance ramp was off of Elm and the traffic rule was to use Elm to access the freeway ramp. In theory, the motorcade could have turned right from Main after it emerged from the Triple Overpass but that would have required having to go over a small divider that separated Main from Elm. so nothing untoward about the selection of the route. The motorcade route through Dealey Plaza was dictated by the location of the luncheon.
Men were arrested in Chicago, with rifles in their hotel room and they were let go. Also, an FBI informant named Lee called the Secret Service warning them of a plot. James Douglass did great work on the Chicago plot.
More might be learned by securing the names of the Chicago Cubans than by obtaining the withheld CIA files. Emphasize "might."
Absolutely. It would also be worthwhile to talk to those still alive, or if dead, their survivors (wives, children, siblings) to see what they know. Someone likely talked or left a diary.
Yes, the Chicago Latin gentlemen might be able to add to what is known. Maybe not though. It is possible David Atlee Phillips could add very little. It is assumed that the genesis of the assassination was in the CIA, but we may never know.
Thoughts on Ruth Paine follow. The employment agency left a message at the Paine household that a significantly better job opportunity was available for Oswald. It is probable that Ruth Paine received this message. Either she notified Oswald of the job or she didn't. You can decide if she didn't and why. A point of interest is that Ruth Paine told Oswald of the chance to work at the Book Depository job. If Oswald received the message, he did not take advantage of it. Perhaps he wanted to stay at the TSBD job. A potential reason for wanting to stay at the this job was that Buell Frazier could help him with transportation. He may have had another reason for not taking the better job.
While she's still alive, I wish someone would ask Paine what sense it makes to withhold information 60 years after the murder.
I saw a new video recently which IIRC said that the parade route was not publicly disclosed until the morning of the 22nd. Oswald was said to have asked a fellow employee on the morning of the 22nd if the motorcade was going to pass by the TSBD. If true, how could Oswald have planned anything?
And Buell Frazer still says the package Oswald carried was not long enough to carry a disassembled rifle.
My thoughts about the motorcade route after reading stuff from the conspiracy buffs were that the route made perfect sense with the dangerous exception of the Houston to Elm turn. Further, Oswald's job at the TSBD could have been secured while he was still living in New Orleans if D.H. Byrd was involved in providing his building. The shooting was not simply one of opportunity. I wonder if the sixth floor wooden floor really needed to be replaced.
Ruth Paine's post assassination history suggests she fulfilled assignments. Her sister and father also performed service to intelligence.
Good overview with the attention to current news on legal action to get more documents released from the national archives.
On RFK, jr., to dismiss his very serious and largely thankless work to hold corrupt corporations accountable, when he thoroughly documents everything he says about the vaccines and the origins of covid, I find sad here, Jeff. You can read his arguments as well as those of other leading researchers on Dr. Peter McCullough's substack, Dr. Malone, AMidwesterndoctor, etc. who have written extensively on the pandemic mismanagement and how the mRNA vaccine platforms are fatally flawed.
Ruth and Michael were Quakers with ties in ancestry going back to the start of this country. The CIA often recruited family members. Michael worked for Bell Helicopter, who supplied the helicopters used in Viet Nam and had deep CIA ties. He accompanied Oswald to several right-wing gatherings .Michael was a millionaire due to being related to the Forbe's family. Ruth Paine got Oswald his job at the Texas School Depository. Ruth's sister worked at the CIA and the Paynes knew Alan Dulles socially.. Ruth later went to Nicaragua and worked for AID during the time of the Iran-Contra affair. I read that Ruth had files of Cuban sympathizers in her garage, The photo of Oswald with a rifle in her backyard was found at Ruth's house, as well as a letter in one of her books that Oswald had written in Russian that somehow tied him to the General Walker shooting. Ruth invited Marina to live with her; and some believe that she was a handler for Marina, who had relatives in Russian intelligence. The Warren Commission tied a lot of evidence to Oswald from evidence found at Ruth's house. Ruth denies being in the CIA and believes Oswald shot Kennedy. In the recent documentary about her, it was revealed that she has delved deep into the research surrounding the assassination..
Re: Chicago plot. Vallee was an ex-Marine who worked at a U-2 base in Japan, worked in a building on the motorcade route and was associated with Cuban exiles
-- just like Oswald. https://www.hsvvoice.com/stories/jfk-files-fair-play-for-cuba-committee-plots-and-suspicious-activities,29034?#:~:text=Another%20suspect%20in%20the%20Chicago,was%20associated%20with%20Cuban%20exiles. Here is an article from ABC News. https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3902495&page=1 What's interesting about the Miami and Cuba and Dallas plots, is that all the suspects were tied to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
So What was Oswald doing in Mexico? several answers as Oswald was playing a double agent role. He told Marina never to tell anyone he wanted to go to Cuba. He wanted Marina to go to Russia but she did not want to. He beat the shit out of her several times. So nobody mentions that 3 KGB Russian embassy agents interviewed Oswald who came in without an appointment (off the street) he wanted a visa to get into Cuba on the way to Russia. They said it would take months. He showed him his FPFC card and newspaper articles on what a revolutionary he was. he showed them his pistol. they asked what do you carry that for and he said the FBI is bothering him.
Now who knows why he was desperate to get into Cuba? Judyth Baker, his N.O. girlfriend has the best explanation. He was going to hand off the Bio cancer weapon to kill Castro they worked on but the person did not show up so he tried to get in to do it anyway. Stupid is as stupid does.
Jefferson interviewed Judyth but could not verify her story. has anyone found evidence her story to be false?
Now on the black patches covering the back of the head wound. you can see Jackie's face through the shadows and even her white glove passes over it with no sign of blood on the head or glove. I see no concave on the back of the head in frame 335 https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z335.jpg
The autopsy photo showing the scull flap seen in Zapruder does not show any large wound to the back of the head. Some researchers determined that was also an altered photo. Nobody knows who even took the photo. The large wound was on the back right side but seemed blacked out but still Jackie's white glove in the sun. https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z344.jpg
All frames here: https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
I believe Frames 371 to 384 as the limo goes away from the camera show the large wound in the right back of the head which in a hurry they missed their chance to blackout
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z371.jpg
In Zapruder frame 371 we see the limousine clearly in the middle lane. In the Nix film the limousine, at this exact frame moment, the limousine is in the left hand lane. This frame might well serve as a milestone in that Clint Hill provides a marking point. So which film is phony? Why do they not record the same information?
The difference in perspective is what you think is different lanes. The nix filmed on the opposite side means changes in viewer angles and perception. They had a lot to do to alter the film in only 12 hours but what would they be hiding even if they could change the lanes the limo was in?
Your thinking is really good. I think I am correct about the left hand lane. The film was not returned in 12 hours though some frames were published by Life shortly afterword. The Doug Horne books are extremely important and it seems understood that alteration could have occurred over months. The possession of the film and the first generation copies is pretty obscure.
In Groden's The Killing Of A President, on page 25, is a 35 mm photo with the car in the left lane. Nix was 6'6 and had a perspective not considered by those in possession of the film. Several witnesses I am aware of (Truly and Hill) stated the car pulled into the left lane. I think a careful examination of the Nix film will bear me out. Regarding the planted foot, it is not blurred because the car is relatively still but as you say, the background is blurred supposedly because of panning while following a moving car. The car was not moving fast, and as you say, Hill never could have made it in the car if it were. Note: in the Nix film you can see it accelerate and pull back into the middle lane.
I'm glad I checked it, thanks. The mortorcycles are in the left lane and when the limo accelerates it does not pull to the left lane. One of the press cars did and stopped. so Bob Jackson could take some famous shots. The Zapruder film shows the perspective from the hill and he was higher than the picket fence. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=864615073878938
In Z371 we see the limousine captured in clear resolution but the blurred background, people standing still, suggests the limo is moving with some degree of speed. However, Clint Hill's foot is planted on the ground as he attempts to spring up to the back of the car. His foot should be blurred and it is not. Simple reason, the car is not moving as fast as we tend to sense it is from the blurred background. The frame is one of many which was altered and little technique was required to do so.
Well, his planted foot would not be blurred anymore than Jackie who is also moving, each frame is 1/18th of a second. The limo did have to slow down enough for Clint hill to catch up. a planted foot is not moving in relation to the car speed and Jackie also moving. what purpose would serve to mess with that frame after the head shots? What you missed is what the alteration missed is the big wound behind the blob and the ear, back of the head wound.
When are these recorded and how do you participate?
Best podcast in awhile, hope this open forum where questions can be disputed and or analyzed continues..
I didn’t receive an email with a link to join the podcast, but I’m glad I was able to listen in this evening. Some interesting topics!
Me either
It would be easy to prove the Zapruder film may be authentic by simply firing any rifle with sufficient power to move a target two inches within the timeframe of striking the target. If the target fails to continue moving in the direction it was forced to move by the bullet, then the Zapruder film may be authentic. If the described phenomenon occurs once within 10,000 experimental shots, I'll buy the argument. Otherwise, Newton's Laws win.