A most excellent discussion Jeff. Thank you for bringing this particular subject and book to our attention. There's a lot to digest in the discussion, especially the drunken James "Jesus" Angleton's testimony near the end of his paranoid life. Sad ending to a sad life.
As far as looking back at this history with 20/20 hindsight, the reference to Cheney and Kissinger making the same point after 911, that the findings of the Church Committee led to our lack of preparedness, says everything about how our so-called patriots never truly believe in accountability or the rule of law.
Most importantly, it demonstrates how easily the conservatives in America in the early 60's could have seen JFK as weak, and a direct threat to "their" Republic. In their minds, he literally was an enemy of the state.
Radicals not "conservatives"? More like quasi-fascist, self-destructive of their own ostensible goals, making the USA less secure, more vulnerable internationally, facing worse threats via the increased tensions and alienating potential allies in the developing world.
Everything JFK worked against, they managed to make worse.
Yes, I meant conservatives, not radicals. People like Nixon, Reagan, Kissinger, Cheney, Milton Friedman, etc., etc. All conservatives, not radicals. All of them and many, many more have made the USA less secure, more vulnerable and alienating potential allies as you so well stated.
Yes, even Milton. His policies were the direct result of economic destruction in most countries in South America. He helped Reagan tear down the unions in America and run up the largest deficits in history. If you look back at his "theories", most if not all, have proven to be wrong and rather archaic. Similar to Ayn Rand, Milton became a favorite of the conservative crowd, until he proved to be full of BS. I think he qualifies.
Friedman was also a proponent of free markets over government intervention which led to the abolition of the Glass Stegall Act which led to the dot.com bubble and the 2008 financial crisis and recession.
Very good insight Diane. Friedman wanted to deregulate everything; let the markets work under the guise of freedom and competition. How did that work out? (The rich got a whole lot richer and the middle class got scraps). No doubt, it led to the 1990 deep recession and the 2008 economic implosion; almost a complete and total collapse of our banking system. If you haven't seen it, The Big Short, so well captures how close America came to a total melt down.
Many of the likely plotters seem to have been angry, paranoid alcoholics with a penchant for violence. Maybe assassinating people for a living drives people to drink and insanity.
Multiple background causes - I am not on usual PC, cannot mess with posting links, try searching "THE AUTHORITARIAN PERSONALITY," WIKIPEDIA - including the criticisms of the book, of course.
Hey Jeff, do you have the comments turned off for your highly partisan "Silence of the Fact Checkers" post? That would be pretty ironic.
Look, Reiner is one of the biggest Biden water-carriers on the planet. I would contend that the man about to release a documentary on the ridiculous Biden fear-mongering claim that "WHITE CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM" is the BIGGEST THREAT to our Republic can with impunity say whatever he likes about JFK -- factual or not -- as far as the MSM water-carriers are concerned. Still, I would agree that the silence is just as likely prudence.
STILL, as I don't plan to listen this august podcast, I am interested as to whether Reiner rightly criticises the current administration's Orwellian "Transparency Plan." I'd wager it doesn't because that would require being honest and impartial. That would possibly require that we all examine the extent to which suppression of dissent and free speech and pervasive disinformation is actually the pattern with Reiner's team. And Jeff, some of your statements fall are right in line with this. Fact checking indeed.
White "Christian" Nationalism is behind far more domestic terrorism (Cf. FBI monitoring and plenty of empirical data assembled by "rightwingwatch.org" and other outfits) and neo-fascist and authoritarian movements that threaten our democracy and the rule of law, our allies, victory in Ukraine over Putin's version of "White `christian' nationalism / Slavic Hegemony .
And much more. Your rant is misplaced, good luck with the Trump cult.
They're also fueled by similar anti-American unpatriotic gibberish, AG.
If memory serves, I have never voted for Trump. Sorry to disappoint you.
But I am glad you commented, because there is one more "ranty" point -- about race -- that I wish to make.
Unless and until JFK dissent breaks out of its white ghetto and gets real traction in the African American community, I think it will likely languish quietly on the political back burner. Just where the powers-that-be want it.
"Four who died trying" to me is a much more significant development than 5 million downloads of Reiner's effort. Fighting the suppression of information regarding state sponsored assassination is the broader banner under which black and white should march together, just like old times.
By constrast Biden & Co are firm segregationists intent on dividing black and white as evidenced by the President's charming speech in South Carolina.
Very interesting, cogent interview and an aptly titled book. Question: Does anyone know if any of the Church Committee’s findings have been classified and if so, how much? (Like we have seen with some of the HSCA findings).
and what changed? Nothing. So we found out that our government is essentially organized crime and all that happened as a result of that insight is nothing. We are ruled by thugs who change the rules to fit their needs and screw the Constitution. It's so frustrating.
I do not believe that the thugs give a rip about communism. It's just a handy dandy way to keep the American electorate terrified and therefore willing to waste our financial resources on the military industrial complex instead of dealing with our domestic social problems. Very few Americans even know what communism means.
I do not believe that the thugs give a rip about communism. It's just a handy dandy way to keep the American electorate terrified and therefore willing to waste our financial resources on the military industrial complex instead of dealing with our domestic social problems. Very few Americans even know what communism means.
This discussion is related to this topic and gives context about why there was so much "hidden" unchecked government power. It goes back to the early days of the Progressive Era in wanting a neutral government of experts that were separate from corrupt politics. https://www.c-span.org/video/?461976-2/deep-state-american-history
A most excellent discussion Jeff. Thank you for bringing this particular subject and book to our attention. There's a lot to digest in the discussion, especially the drunken James "Jesus" Angleton's testimony near the end of his paranoid life. Sad ending to a sad life.
As far as looking back at this history with 20/20 hindsight, the reference to Cheney and Kissinger making the same point after 911, that the findings of the Church Committee led to our lack of preparedness, says everything about how our so-called patriots never truly believe in accountability or the rule of law.
Most importantly, it demonstrates how easily the conservatives in America in the early 60's could have seen JFK as weak, and a direct threat to "their" Republic. In their minds, he literally was an enemy of the state.
Radicals not "conservatives"? More like quasi-fascist, self-destructive of their own ostensible goals, making the USA less secure, more vulnerable internationally, facing worse threats via the increased tensions and alienating potential allies in the developing world.
Everything JFK worked against, they managed to make worse.
Yes, I meant conservatives, not radicals. People like Nixon, Reagan, Kissinger, Cheney, Milton Friedman, etc., etc. All conservatives, not radicals. All of them and many, many more have made the USA less secure, more vulnerable and alienating potential allies as you so well stated.
Milton Friedman??
Yes, even Milton. His policies were the direct result of economic destruction in most countries in South America. He helped Reagan tear down the unions in America and run up the largest deficits in history. If you look back at his "theories", most if not all, have proven to be wrong and rather archaic. Similar to Ayn Rand, Milton became a favorite of the conservative crowd, until he proved to be full of BS. I think he qualifies.
Friedman was also a proponent of free markets over government intervention which led to the abolition of the Glass Stegall Act which led to the dot.com bubble and the 2008 financial crisis and recession.
Very good insight Diane. Friedman wanted to deregulate everything; let the markets work under the guise of freedom and competition. How did that work out? (The rich got a whole lot richer and the middle class got scraps). No doubt, it led to the 1990 deep recession and the 2008 economic implosion; almost a complete and total collapse of our banking system. If you haven't seen it, The Big Short, so well captures how close America came to a total melt down.
Many of the likely plotters seem to have been angry, paranoid alcoholics with a penchant for violence. Maybe assassinating people for a living drives people to drink and insanity.
Multiple background causes - I am not on usual PC, cannot mess with posting links, try searching "THE AUTHORITARIAN PERSONALITY," WIKIPEDIA - including the criticisms of the book, of course.
Hey Jeff, do you have the comments turned off for your highly partisan "Silence of the Fact Checkers" post? That would be pretty ironic.
Look, Reiner is one of the biggest Biden water-carriers on the planet. I would contend that the man about to release a documentary on the ridiculous Biden fear-mongering claim that "WHITE CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM" is the BIGGEST THREAT to our Republic can with impunity say whatever he likes about JFK -- factual or not -- as far as the MSM water-carriers are concerned. Still, I would agree that the silence is just as likely prudence.
STILL, as I don't plan to listen this august podcast, I am interested as to whether Reiner rightly criticises the current administration's Orwellian "Transparency Plan." I'd wager it doesn't because that would require being honest and impartial. That would possibly require that we all examine the extent to which suppression of dissent and free speech and pervasive disinformation is actually the pattern with Reiner's team. And Jeff, some of your statements fall are right in line with this. Fact checking indeed.
White "Christian" Nationalism is behind far more domestic terrorism (Cf. FBI monitoring and plenty of empirical data assembled by "rightwingwatch.org" and other outfits) and neo-fascist and authoritarian movements that threaten our democracy and the rule of law, our allies, victory in Ukraine over Putin's version of "White `christian' nationalism / Slavic Hegemony .
And much more. Your rant is misplaced, good luck with the Trump cult.
They're also fueled by similar anti-American unpatriotic gibberish, AG.
If memory serves, I have never voted for Trump. Sorry to disappoint you.
But I am glad you commented, because there is one more "ranty" point -- about race -- that I wish to make.
Unless and until JFK dissent breaks out of its white ghetto and gets real traction in the African American community, I think it will likely languish quietly on the political back burner. Just where the powers-that-be want it.
"Four who died trying" to me is a much more significant development than 5 million downloads of Reiner's effort. Fighting the suppression of information regarding state sponsored assassination is the broader banner under which black and white should march together, just like old times.
By constrast Biden & Co are firm segregationists intent on dividing black and white as evidenced by the President's charming speech in South Carolina.
Amen.
Very interesting, cogent interview and an aptly titled book. Question: Does anyone know if any of the Church Committee’s findings have been classified and if so, how much? (Like we have seen with some of the HSCA findings).
and what changed? Nothing. So we found out that our government is essentially organized crime and all that happened as a result of that insight is nothing. We are ruled by thugs who change the rules to fit their needs and screw the Constitution. It's so frustrating.
Well the thugs believed they were fighting communism. Another cause is the paranoia of communism.
I do not believe that the thugs give a rip about communism. It's just a handy dandy way to keep the American electorate terrified and therefore willing to waste our financial resources on the military industrial complex instead of dealing with our domestic social problems. Very few Americans even know what communism means.
I do not believe that the thugs give a rip about communism. It's just a handy dandy way to keep the American electorate terrified and therefore willing to waste our financial resources on the military industrial complex instead of dealing with our domestic social problems. Very few Americans even know what communism means.
Now,I read this book.
Very good.
But,why CIA not killed Frank Church ?
CIA killed JFK,they counterpunch.
CIA not killed Church,they without resistance.
Oh! CIA's strange behavior!
Jimmy Carter almost a breaking down CIA.
CIA not killed Carter.
Richard Nixion used a Hunt as a burglar.
CIA blamed by U.S people and congress.
CIA not killed RN.
Why assassination researcher believed CIA killed JFK?
This discussion is related to this topic and gives context about why there was so much "hidden" unchecked government power. It goes back to the early days of the Progressive Era in wanting a neutral government of experts that were separate from corrupt politics. https://www.c-span.org/video/?461976-2/deep-state-american-history