The whole damn political system is rigged through gerrymandering, the electoral college, voter suppression, media blackouts on dissident candidates, and legislation that keeps third parties off the ballot. Is that a democracy? I don't think so. The Supreme Court says it can't figure out any solutions (ha!).
The whole damn political system is rigged through gerrymandering, the electoral college, voter suppression, media blackouts on dissident candidates, and legislation that keeps third parties off the ballot. Is that a democracy? I don't think so. The Supreme Court says it can't figure out any solutions (ha!).
It wasn't necessary to tamper with the actual vote until a presidential candidate came along who the oligarchy couldn't control. Trump's principal transgression is that he won't greenlight all the wars they want. Of course, that's what got JFK killed.
How do you think the vote was tampered with? Trump's lawyers couldn't convince any judges that it was, including ones he appointed.
Although I can’t offer concrete evidence, I believe the vote was tampered with through the introduction of tens of millions of unsolicited mail-in ballots that could be cast by anyone in lieu of going to the polling stations. This is only the latest chapter in deteriorating election integrity in America.
This will get me in trouble for conspiracy theorizing, but the combination of (1) tens of millions of mail-in ballots and (2) the legality of ballot-harvesting in nearly half the states created a situation where ballots could be filled out on behalf of voters and cast for Biden with impunity. I have witnessed this in other countries, on a smaller scale, where Washington needed one or another party or candidate to win. I believe it was done in America in 2020, primarily in states where ballot-harvesting was legal, so the only illegality there would have been the actual fraud of filling out the absentee ballot on behalf of the actual voter without them knowing or specifically approving of the choice. The rest would actually have been legal. You can collect up bunches of ballots for people and put them in the drop boxes without breaking the law in (I think) 24 states. Those 6 “swing states” were only the ones where the result couldn’t by clinched quickly. In huge cities like New York and Chicago, with no monitoring, no one would even bother contesting the integrity of one person, one vote.
Again, I’ll be accused of conspiracy-theorizing, since this was made possible by the “pandemic rules” for the election. A decision was made to institute a system of unsolicited mail-in ballots, so tens of millions of those were floating around in the run-up to Election Day, and the rest was just the math of making sure Biden won. The otherwise annoying Stephen Crowder did an interesting analysis of Michigan and especially Wayne County, where Detroit is, and that (I believe) is what happened there based on the stats.
Do I believe Biden could have won fairly? Sure. I can’t prove that a popular wave of tens of millions of Trump-haters didn’t turn their resentment into action by filling out their absentee ballots for Biden and sending them in via snail mail. I doubt it, since voter turnout in America is customarily low, but it’s possible. Do I believe Biden actually won 8 million more votes than Trump fair and square? No.
It’s all moot now anyway. Biden was certified and duly sworn in. Another dirty election in America? So what.
Very plausible. Ballot harvesting has been going on in Texas for years. A very popular liberal state representative in my area was the victim of it. He was defeated in the primary by a shady opponent who won by a narrow margin through vote harvesting: sending operatives with prepared ballots around to all the senior centers and getting mentally impaired seniors to sign them. The mail-in ballot situation could be far worse. All this is nearly impossible to prove in court.
Trump's lawyers seemed to make the mistake of blaming county election workers who were honestly counting the votes they received.
What's the solution? Maybe every voter should be identified and verified to be competent before a ballot is issued.
Yeah, and I'm sorry to have to say it but Texas may have been where the most brazen election falsification really started, with Landslide Lyndon in 1948. That was a primary, of course, but in a sense that's even worse. Think Hillary v. Bernie in 2016.
And it may be more systemic even than what you describe in the nursing homes. In other words, the need to go around and get people to sign pre-prepared ballots might not even be necessary now because of the adoption of the mail-ins as an automatic choice for everyone. No actual ballot is signed, only the "envelope." The ballot is taken out, and the envelope is thrown away. When Trump's legal team were trying to do their thing, there was no hope of tracking down all the envelopes, and no way to match them with the ballots they once contained. So that was another embarrassment for Rudy Giuliani, who had already had a hair dye mishap on national television.
In my life, I have voted absentee in a presidential election twice. The ballot itself has no signature on it, but in 2020, the "envelope" I cast wasn't even sealed. You just "folded" it around the ballot in the instructed way and put it into the little box on the wall outside the U.S. Embassy. I had actually had to "make" the ballot package. I'd requested the ballot via email, and received everything via email, to be printed out, cut up and folded. It all felt very weird and insecure. In 1992, which was really pre-internet, I had to order a ballot way in advance, fill it out, and send it back snail-mail to the U.S. But even that felt more secure than in 2020.
In the old days, absentee ballots weren't even counted unless the result was very close, as in 2000, when votes from serving military personnel in Kosovo had to be counted (I can just imagine how conscientiously that was done). Now, absentee ballots have become the norm.
I doubt there is any going back, because the last I checked, the Republicans had tried to "outdo" the Democrats in the push for full virtual voting. In my state, Virginia, the Republican government has very proudly pushed this as the way of the future. No paper trail, no "nuisance" of postage stamps and envelopes. They want to appear more enlightened and advanced than the Dems.
Absolutely. Lyndon won his senate seat with 87 cemetery votes provided by the Duke of Duval, George Parr. Johnson was a scumbag, crook, and possibly a murderer via Mac Wallace, his hitman. In 1948, the Democratic Primary was the election. Republicans weren't competitive at the time.
Trump lost a great opportunity to educate the public on how our elections are insecure and to offer real solutions. He could have offered proposals for legislation to insure the fairness and accuracy of elections. Instead, he chose to try to implore state election officials to "find" more votes for himself and, after the election, to smear innocent county election workers for his loss. Trump is not bright. He just isn't. Nor does he stand on principle. He has none. Almost everything is about his self-aggrandizement.
I would like to hear at least one politician talk about how corrupt our entire political system is through gerrymandering and the other things I mentioned as well as these fraudulent election practices.
Even if Trump was robbed in 2020, he never expressed any concern about election integrity before he lost an election. So no sympathy there. He’s behind the 8-ball on that.
But I maintain that the legal strategy pursued by Giuliani, whatever one thinks of Giuliani, fell within constitutional parameters. There was nothing “illegal” about contesting Electoral College certification, and there is plenty of precedent. The letter addressed to the Senate from state legislators was perfectly civilized. So was the lawsuit by 19 states that SCOTUS refused to review. Nothing outrageous about it, and in fact I wish such contests were more frequent.
It’s just that in 2021 it all ended in rioting and vandalism, so then it became a “coup attempt” (Noam Chomsky) or an “insurrection” (MSM, using comms/PR messaging and talking points). The official historical narrative ALWAYS gets warped in America. That’s why we still have the Warren Report.
I agree with just about everything included in this thread. Chad’s scenario is highly plausible and likely close to the truth. I would only add this:
The Washington Post has after recent elections (months after IIRC) published an “interactive” digital map showing election results PRECINCT BY PRECINCT across the entire U.S.... The map is therefore both enormous and granular. It is unwieldy and difficult to navigate but you may still be able to find them. Other outlets publish maps showing county by county results but the WAPO map is by far the granddaddy of them all.
Anyway the 2020 map shows three shades of red indicating the margins by which Trump won precincts and three shades of blue showing same for Biden. Wayne County MI (ie Detroit and environs) shows **100%** of precincts in the darkest blue. We are talking about hundreds if not thousands of precincts. This is demographically and mathematically impossible. And furthermore this pattern ends abruptly as soon as you look at precincts outside Wayne County.
The Elites can’t afford to allow the voters to elect people who actually represent them. How they have prevented this has grown over the recent decades less brutal and more sophisticated.
Everything you mentioned is part of it. If you have enough money any part of the system can be bought. The Elites have that kind of money.
So far we are still a nation of laws. The solution to date remains that the people see that the laws are enforced. This is not easy in any way, shape, or form. The people must be vigilant — “A republic madam if you can keep it”.
The biggest, most dangerous, and sophisticated assaults on the Constitution are electronic voting, mail-in voting, and early voting. We can see from Chad Nagle’s posts how these devices were implemented as a response to the “crisis” of the 2000 presidential election. A textbook psy-op.
We have no choice but to push back hard. Not only must we enforce existing law but we must change law where necessary. Most critically we must push for new law dismantling the secret intelligence apparatus.
The whole damn political system is rigged through gerrymandering, the electoral college, voter suppression, media blackouts on dissident candidates, and legislation that keeps third parties off the ballot. Is that a democracy? I don't think so. The Supreme Court says it can't figure out any solutions (ha!).
It wasn't necessary to tamper with the actual vote until a presidential candidate came along who the oligarchy couldn't control. Trump's principal transgression is that he won't greenlight all the wars they want. Of course, that's what got JFK killed.
How do you think the vote was tampered with? Trump's lawyers couldn't convince any judges that it was, including ones he appointed.
Although I can’t offer concrete evidence, I believe the vote was tampered with through the introduction of tens of millions of unsolicited mail-in ballots that could be cast by anyone in lieu of going to the polling stations. This is only the latest chapter in deteriorating election integrity in America.
This will get me in trouble for conspiracy theorizing, but the combination of (1) tens of millions of mail-in ballots and (2) the legality of ballot-harvesting in nearly half the states created a situation where ballots could be filled out on behalf of voters and cast for Biden with impunity. I have witnessed this in other countries, on a smaller scale, where Washington needed one or another party or candidate to win. I believe it was done in America in 2020, primarily in states where ballot-harvesting was legal, so the only illegality there would have been the actual fraud of filling out the absentee ballot on behalf of the actual voter without them knowing or specifically approving of the choice. The rest would actually have been legal. You can collect up bunches of ballots for people and put them in the drop boxes without breaking the law in (I think) 24 states. Those 6 “swing states” were only the ones where the result couldn’t by clinched quickly. In huge cities like New York and Chicago, with no monitoring, no one would even bother contesting the integrity of one person, one vote.
Again, I’ll be accused of conspiracy-theorizing, since this was made possible by the “pandemic rules” for the election. A decision was made to institute a system of unsolicited mail-in ballots, so tens of millions of those were floating around in the run-up to Election Day, and the rest was just the math of making sure Biden won. The otherwise annoying Stephen Crowder did an interesting analysis of Michigan and especially Wayne County, where Detroit is, and that (I believe) is what happened there based on the stats.
Do I believe Biden could have won fairly? Sure. I can’t prove that a popular wave of tens of millions of Trump-haters didn’t turn their resentment into action by filling out their absentee ballots for Biden and sending them in via snail mail. I doubt it, since voter turnout in America is customarily low, but it’s possible. Do I believe Biden actually won 8 million more votes than Trump fair and square? No.
It’s all moot now anyway. Biden was certified and duly sworn in. Another dirty election in America? So what.
Very plausible. Ballot harvesting has been going on in Texas for years. A very popular liberal state representative in my area was the victim of it. He was defeated in the primary by a shady opponent who won by a narrow margin through vote harvesting: sending operatives with prepared ballots around to all the senior centers and getting mentally impaired seniors to sign them. The mail-in ballot situation could be far worse. All this is nearly impossible to prove in court.
Trump's lawyers seemed to make the mistake of blaming county election workers who were honestly counting the votes they received.
What's the solution? Maybe every voter should be identified and verified to be competent before a ballot is issued.
Yeah, and I'm sorry to have to say it but Texas may have been where the most brazen election falsification really started, with Landslide Lyndon in 1948. That was a primary, of course, but in a sense that's even worse. Think Hillary v. Bernie in 2016.
And it may be more systemic even than what you describe in the nursing homes. In other words, the need to go around and get people to sign pre-prepared ballots might not even be necessary now because of the adoption of the mail-ins as an automatic choice for everyone. No actual ballot is signed, only the "envelope." The ballot is taken out, and the envelope is thrown away. When Trump's legal team were trying to do their thing, there was no hope of tracking down all the envelopes, and no way to match them with the ballots they once contained. So that was another embarrassment for Rudy Giuliani, who had already had a hair dye mishap on national television.
In my life, I have voted absentee in a presidential election twice. The ballot itself has no signature on it, but in 2020, the "envelope" I cast wasn't even sealed. You just "folded" it around the ballot in the instructed way and put it into the little box on the wall outside the U.S. Embassy. I had actually had to "make" the ballot package. I'd requested the ballot via email, and received everything via email, to be printed out, cut up and folded. It all felt very weird and insecure. In 1992, which was really pre-internet, I had to order a ballot way in advance, fill it out, and send it back snail-mail to the U.S. But even that felt more secure than in 2020.
In the old days, absentee ballots weren't even counted unless the result was very close, as in 2000, when votes from serving military personnel in Kosovo had to be counted (I can just imagine how conscientiously that was done). Now, absentee ballots have become the norm.
I doubt there is any going back, because the last I checked, the Republicans had tried to "outdo" the Democrats in the push for full virtual voting. In my state, Virginia, the Republican government has very proudly pushed this as the way of the future. No paper trail, no "nuisance" of postage stamps and envelopes. They want to appear more enlightened and advanced than the Dems.
Absolutely. Lyndon won his senate seat with 87 cemetery votes provided by the Duke of Duval, George Parr. Johnson was a scumbag, crook, and possibly a murderer via Mac Wallace, his hitman. In 1948, the Democratic Primary was the election. Republicans weren't competitive at the time.
Trump lost a great opportunity to educate the public on how our elections are insecure and to offer real solutions. He could have offered proposals for legislation to insure the fairness and accuracy of elections. Instead, he chose to try to implore state election officials to "find" more votes for himself and, after the election, to smear innocent county election workers for his loss. Trump is not bright. He just isn't. Nor does he stand on principle. He has none. Almost everything is about his self-aggrandizement.
I would like to hear at least one politician talk about how corrupt our entire political system is through gerrymandering and the other things I mentioned as well as these fraudulent election practices.
Even if Trump was robbed in 2020, he never expressed any concern about election integrity before he lost an election. So no sympathy there. He’s behind the 8-ball on that.
But I maintain that the legal strategy pursued by Giuliani, whatever one thinks of Giuliani, fell within constitutional parameters. There was nothing “illegal” about contesting Electoral College certification, and there is plenty of precedent. The letter addressed to the Senate from state legislators was perfectly civilized. So was the lawsuit by 19 states that SCOTUS refused to review. Nothing outrageous about it, and in fact I wish such contests were more frequent.
It’s just that in 2021 it all ended in rioting and vandalism, so then it became a “coup attempt” (Noam Chomsky) or an “insurrection” (MSM, using comms/PR messaging and talking points). The official historical narrative ALWAYS gets warped in America. That’s why we still have the Warren Report.
I agree it was trespassing, rioting, and vandalism, certainly not a coup attempt or an insurrection.
I don't see any excuse for Giuliani's libeling the county election workers. He made those women's lives hell.
Chomsky gets it wrong not infrequently. His most revered work about propaganda was mostly written by his co-author IIRC.
I agree with just about everything included in this thread. Chad’s scenario is highly plausible and likely close to the truth. I would only add this:
The Washington Post has after recent elections (months after IIRC) published an “interactive” digital map showing election results PRECINCT BY PRECINCT across the entire U.S.... The map is therefore both enormous and granular. It is unwieldy and difficult to navigate but you may still be able to find them. Other outlets publish maps showing county by county results but the WAPO map is by far the granddaddy of them all.
Anyway the 2020 map shows three shades of red indicating the margins by which Trump won precincts and three shades of blue showing same for Biden. Wayne County MI (ie Detroit and environs) shows **100%** of precincts in the darkest blue. We are talking about hundreds if not thousands of precincts. This is demographically and mathematically impossible. And furthermore this pattern ends abruptly as soon as you look at precincts outside Wayne County.
The Elites can’t afford to allow the voters to elect people who actually represent them. How they have prevented this has grown over the recent decades less brutal and more sophisticated.
Everything you mentioned is part of it. If you have enough money any part of the system can be bought. The Elites have that kind of money.
So far we are still a nation of laws. The solution to date remains that the people see that the laws are enforced. This is not easy in any way, shape, or form. The people must be vigilant — “A republic madam if you can keep it”.
The biggest, most dangerous, and sophisticated assaults on the Constitution are electronic voting, mail-in voting, and early voting. We can see from Chad Nagle’s posts how these devices were implemented as a response to the “crisis” of the 2000 presidential election. A textbook psy-op.
We have no choice but to push back hard. Not only must we enforce existing law but we must change law where necessary. Most critically we must push for new law dismantling the secret intelligence apparatus.